Okay, so you know how feminists like to insist that the movement is about equality, not women, and how they like to claim that the dictionary says feminism is about equality?
It doesn’t. Not the Google result for “define:feminism”. Not the site summary for feminist.com, or /r/Feminism, or Wikipedia, the OED, Webster, or Dictionary.com.
Every single one says it’s about women’s rights. Equality is at best a justification.
The closest is Webster’s, which, curiously, draws a clear distinction between feminism as a belief in equality, and feminism as a movement for women.
They’re the same thing. It’s about equality from a woman standpoint. Your standoffishness towards this is akin to getting angry at LGBT rights groups for calling themselves an equality movement.
There’s no contradiction, just a specific focus. This is scraping through the bottom of the barrel if I ever saw it.
I have a question. Does being a feminist mean you can’t support other things as well? That’s the way most people make it seem.
Feminism has evolved over the years since its original induction to further the lives of women. Intersectional feminism not only works to better the lives of specific oppressed groups, it looks for and challenges systems of oppression. Racism is a system of oppression. Misogyny is a system of oppression. Ablism, transphobia, homophobia, biphobia, etc are all systematic institutionalized forms of oppression.
And yet, “intersectional” feminism still ignores the issues men may face for being men, even when they’re part of other minority groups. I hear a lot about how the cops profiling black dudes, like me, is racism, but little about how it’s also sexism. And it fits the definition of institutionalized bias as well.
I like how you just toss in the SJ language instead of layman’s terms thar.
So of course being a feminist isn’t exclusively about women. You can support as many causes within that framework as you see fit!
Choose your own feminism, is that it?
It’s important to ask yourself “Who am I oppressing? Am I being oppressive to a group already struggling, or am I being critical of a group already placed in a position of power and privilege?”
I’m sorry, but I think that “oppression” and “privilege” are far too binary, as commonly applied in social justice circles. It’s held as axiomatic that there are certain groups that can never be considered op-
Most white, cisgendered, heterosexual, able-bodied, neurotypical and specifically DMAB people
Yes, exactly, thank you for the example.
Incidentally, when Elliot Rodger went on a shooting rampage, many feminists bent over backwards to ignore his Asperger’s and clear mental issues to make it all about his hatred of women. So much for concern for non-neurotypicals there.
don’t realize how they’re being oppressive because they have the privilege of not having to fight for recognition, or that their bodies, gender, or sexuality has never been a politicized issue.
Please tell that to the shedloads of men and boys who have been circumcised, currently estimated at as high as, oh, a third of the dudes on Earth. Or conscripted to fight and die in a war throughout history and in the present. In fact, the early suffragates, the White Feather Girls, actually shamed men into going to “do their duty” in WWI. As for politics, perhaps you’re not familiar with the Vietnam War. Fun fact; the voting age during ‘Nam was 21. The enlistment age was 18. As for sexuality, France and Germany have made it illegal to test a kid’s DNA without a court order and consent from the other parent. In the former, breaking the law is punishable by up to a year in jail. What about the fact that in the UK, rape is defined, by law, solely as forcibly penetrating someone with a penis? If you have a vagina, and you made him or her have sex with you, it’s a sexual offense, but it ain’t rape.
Also, you’re begging the question here. Even if they themselves have not been “oppressed”, that does not automatically prevent them from recognizing “oppression”.
That’s where a lot of resentment gets brewed, and the #notallmen thing comes from.
Wait, are you saying that people, men and women, protesting what they feel were unfair generalizations about men is oppression? Like the one you’re about to make?
Feminists understand that not all men participate in directly harming women; however, all men directly benefit from the systematic oppression of women.
“Directly”? I, as a man, directly benefit if a woman is raped or abused? What if the assailant is another woman? Doesn’t she benefit even a little? Especially given how much society looks the other way when it comes to female abusers? What if the woman in question is my wife, daughter, niece, or sister? Whence do I profit? What if I’m a dude who’s having consensual sex with a woman, and her parents railroad her into accusing me of rape? Heck, if men want sex more than women, how do they benefit from women being encouraged to be less open about their sexuality? How does slut-shaming benefit men?
You’re trying to hold men responsible for oppression of women even if they personally don’t do anything to oppress women, via double-talk. You’re also, in effect, implying that I’m “directly” responsible for every other black man that’s ever done something wrong to a woman. And that every Hispanic man is responsible for every other Hispanic man. And so on, and so forth.
See what I mean?
All whites benefit from the systematic oppression of people of color.
Including the innocent ones killed in reprisals, like the Boer farmer murders going on in South Africa. Oh, and the ones who are stigmatized for falling in love with said POCs. And what about when the people of color are oppressing each other? What if the white folks are trying to protect the POCs from other white people, and get hurt in the process?
All cisgender people benefit from a system that refuses to recognize trans people.
How are you defining “benefit”, exactly? Are you defining it as “privileged over”? Because those aren’t the same thing. Also, the System recognizes trans people plenty. Admittedly, it’s mostly to marginalize them, but less so these days.
It’s not to say that someone has it worse than another and we’re all in a pissing contest to see who has it worst,
Have…have you not been reading your own post? Or does it not count as a pissing contest when you say “white, cisgendered, heterosexual, able-bodied, neurotypical and specifically DMAB people” haven’t been oppressed? Because, y’know, once you do all the math, you’re talking about a minority of the human race. In fact, you’re talking about a minority once you use the word “white”.
just that differences exist and different people struggle with different things and all those experiences deserve respect and those people treated with dignity.
Unless they’re “white, cisgendered, heterosexual, able-bodied, neurotypical and specifically DMAB people”, of course.
tl;dr: women are amazing
and still deserve respect and dignity that they aren’t awarded within a patriarchal society
Pay no attention to the fact that just about every single First World Patriarchal nation has shedloads of programs to help women, and one of the main tenets of most Western Patriarchal societies is protection of women, by men, and you’re implying that women deserve respect by virtue of existing.
however, that’s one system of oppression and all systems of oppression need to be dismantled.
As long as they’re against the groups you already acknowledge as being oppressed, of course.
Long post but worth it. Egalitarianism and humanism, yes. Feminism, no.
"Feminism isn’t about hating men" except when the situation calls for it. In Portland, if you’re a white straight chubby neuro-good cis-dude with an ok-sized penis, you’re pretty much not allowed to say anything without someone recording it with their iPhone and putting on Reddit to get people to cajole you into being more "tolerant." It’s how I’ve lost several friends, actually. You make a joke, someone says it’s their trigger, you look at them like their fathers did when they said they wanted to be a sex-positive hacktivist blogger, they tell you to read The Invisible Kanpsack, you unfollow them. Women who feel they are being oppressed 24/7 in front of black people - now that’s cute.
But it’s not all that bad - it’s only the end of the world when you talk about feminism or talk about women or to women or around women or in the same county as a woman. And when I say woman, I mean female of the age 40 and under because their mothers were OG feminists who fought and stood for something. Black people, Native Americans, gay war veterans, people missing limbs, etc? They can wait while we deal with issues like the glass ceiling (“no, I shouldn’t have to work harder to make more money - there’s nothing wrong with going to Devry and complaining about people who went to MIT!”) and rape culture (“men rape women, some women have also raped women I guess. Women raping men? That’s a hilarious concept, was that an episode of Frasier? I see that happening to Niles.”). If you have anything to say in response to their protesting slogans, like presenting cases where a man is arrested for letting his wife beat him just because she pressed charges with a lie and he was too nice to return the favor, you’re obviously a hateful person. You know what, so be it. You’re right, I do hate you.
"You’re just an MRA whose opinions come from a hateful toxic place" so I guess there’s no room for debate. You know that joke about how you can’t argue with women? Yeah, it’s really funny, isn’t it?
Man, I can’t wait to talk about anything else but this shit. I just hate how much this generation has ruined the English-speaking world. And I do mean ruin. If we ever go to war on our soil, no one here will unite and fight as one. If we have to rebuild a bridge to get from one town to the other, the project will be put on hold so separate parties can use the city council meetings as an excuse to bicker. If a white boy falls in a ditch off his bike, I’m sure it’ll be written as a joke in the sequel to Dear White People. In fact, that’s where our money is going - making music and movies for campaigns about some brand new oppressed entity instead of putting more desks in the schools that are closing rapidly in cities all over the country. You got people like Andrew W.K. out there going on Fox News to say “look, stop fighting all the time,” meanwhile Tumblr has enough millions of passive-aggressive slacktivists on it that it’s hard to ignore how fucking terrible we’re all becoming. You think this is what Russia is doing? They’re expanding and it’s causing major turmoil - we’re bitching about it on the internet. All our parents were right and we’re all wrong… but especially the goddamn feminists. It’s dead like punk. Those people are in their 60’s, not wearing plaid pants with safety pins. Well, the original feminists are equally as excited to see what you’re all doing with the movement. I can’t wait for feminism to be gone forever so we can start preaching equality.